Hand retains soft spot for Ballinamere but sets sight on back to back titles for Kilcormac-Killoughey

IF Kilcormac-Killoughey were not in Sunday's Senior Hurling Championship final, Shane Hand would be supporting Ballinamere, a club he enjoyed great success with in the earlier stages of his managerial career.

The Kilcormac-Killoughey manager led Ballinamere into senior ranks at the end of the last decade. He was at the helm when they won the Intermediate and Senior “B” Hurling Championships in 2017 and 2018.

He didn't stay with them as they entered senior hurling, needing a break and he is now in his third year as manager of his home club. He has seen every side of the coin to date – they were blown away by Shinrone in the 2022 county final and returned the favour in last year's final.

Now they find themselves in new waters, playing debutants Ballinamere in Sunday's final and hot favourites, despite the considerable talent at the disposal of their opponents.

I spoke to you this time last year but you look to have moved it on to a different level since then, is that fair to say?

“Winning probably makes it a bit easier. Last year there was probably a bit more pressure on after losing to Shinrone the year before so winning is a good habit and probably gave us the confidence we had lost the year before. Tony Gleeson coming in as well was a huge help, a top class coach and I think he has brought the hurling to a new level, he's in with the Offaly Under 20s as well and in my opinion was a huge part of that success. And he has took so much pressure off me. It's fair to say between winning the county final last year and Tony coming in we probably have moved up a level.”

You're blowing teams like Rynagh's and Coolderry out of the water, and they were hugely impressive performances but you looked so hungry both days?

“It's all about work rate, work rate, work rate. We know we have lovely hurlers and they're small and they're skilful but without the work rate that doesn't count for anything. We're drilling it into them the whole time, it's about work rate. Because there's such a strong panel there lads know, unlike in the past you had 15 or 16, and now you're picking out 20 or 23, lads know that if they're not working hard now they'll probably be sitting on the bench the next day.”

Expectations were high after the Rynagh's and Coolderry games, certainly outside the camp, and I presume within the club as well, and people start talking about Leinster and All-Ireland clubs. How hard is it to dampen that down?

“We don't listen to any of that and I'm being 100% honest. We probably have the most down to earth bunch of players we ever hard. And it's funny because a lot of the younger lads coming through have won everything coming up so you'd imagine they might be cocky but they're the complete opposite, they don't listen to anything that's going on outside the club. They don't pass any remarks on it, they just come in, they love hurling, they love training. Lads talking about Leinster titles mustn't be looking at the hurling. With Clubber now there's no excuse for not looking at Kilkenny and Dublin and all these places. Looking at that and then saying K-K are going to win a Leinster title is all a load of bull really. We're definitely not looking any further than Ballinamere.”

But it must be an aim down the line?

“Of course, if we get over Ballinamere the attention switches to the Leinster championship. But I don't even know the draw for the Leinster club is. I actually don't know. If we win we'll enjoy the week or whatever and if Ballinamere win they'll enjoy their week before they turn their focus to it. If you come out of your county you're doing your best to represent your club and your county. I thought we did a fair job of that last year, we came up against a top class Loughlin Gaels team and probably gave them too much respect in the first half and probably showed more of ourselves in the second half and there wasn't much in it.”

You've brought a few your Senior B players up this year. How big a help have they been?

“They're all young and enthusiastic and they're able to hurl. It just added to the panel. As I said, it adds to the competition in training every night. They're a huge help and they're young and they've brought a huge breath of fresh air to the whole thing. It's just a testament to the boys in the Senior B team to lose five players that won last year and Clodiagh Gaels get two of their main players back, it's a credit to our Senior Bs the way they dug out the Senior B championship.

Doing the double of the two top championships in Offaly would be an incredible achievement?

“I suppose our Senior Bs have an advantage in that they're training with the Senior As the whole time, so they're exposed to the same training and it's a high standard of training. They're probably lucky but it was a huge achievement last year and if we manage to do it this year it's another huge achievement. But even in training we're very conscious we don't call it Senior A or Senior B, we call them all senior hurlers and they all buy into that, they're all part of the one panel.

“Alex Kavanagh started the year Senior B, a beautiful hurler as well. On the Senior B even though there's probably a few lads pushing on, you have Harry Sweeney who came up this year, a minor last year, and Mark Mulrooney. I know their ambition is to play Senior A hurling. We've Richard Bracken, who wasn't on the Senior B team this year; because of numbers, he played on the Junior A but he was on the Offaly Under 20 panel as well. So there is three or four more coming that are going to be pushing but Harry and Mark this year in particular were exceptional for the Senior Bs.”

How hard is it to tell a lad like Alex he's playing Senior B when he would make any other club team in the county?

“Very hard. But it's no harder than, for example, Cathal Kiely has been injured all year with a hamstring, and you've to tell Enda Grogan he's not starting, a lad who has given his whole life to the club. And tell Alex he's not starting and my own nephew Jack Screeney was injured for a few weeks and was starting in the first few rounds of the championship and then you've to tell him he wasn't starting. To tell any fellow he's not starting considering they're here every night and putting in as much effort as everyone else, it's probably the worst part of the job. But it has to be done, and I have to do it.”

Does the fact that you have a son (Daniel, known as Diggy to many) there complicate it?

“Yeah, it does. He's probably under a bit of pressure that if he makes a mistake it probably looks worse than if someone else does, or if he pucks it wide, but he doesn't get any special privileges.”

Could it be the opposite, that a manager can be harder on his own than anyone else?

“The opposite really. I had another son (Dylan) involved with Senior B and he didn't start the Senior B final so Daniel doesn't get any special privileges. He probably gets extra hardship because he has to listen to me at home as well. But he's a good lad, he's quiet and probably a bit shy. He was probably disappointed last year he didn't get a run so he got his chance this year. I think he proved he's well able to do it. He played very well last Sunday so hopefully he'll go ok the next day.”

How important are the older lads to the younger lads?

“I don't consider Conor Slevin one of the older lads but he has a lot of years on the clock in the goals. In my opinion he's a top class goalie and probably the best in the county and he's a great captain. He's a great link between management and the players' group. He likes the craic with the boys as well. Enda Grogan and Jordan Quinn have been there a long time but when you get onto Conor Mahon and Damien Kilmartin and the age they are, and Cillian Kiely. And in fairness to Dan Currams and James Gorman they're here training the whole time, they've huge mileage on the clock and they're here every night and they're great with all the boys. Conor Mahon and Damien Kilmartin, to be doing what they're doing with the mileage on the clock is incredible. And I probably didn't realise what they offered when I came in three years ago. To see the two of them now is just incredible, the mindset, Damo in particular, he's just obsessed, and Conor, the way he looks after himself. They're brilliant with the young lads and I think the young lads coming along has given them an extra lease of life. Without them they might have drifted off. Damien and Conor are in the best shape of their lives.”

Rynagh's in Rath and Coolderry were the two games that stood out for me. You were obviously very hungry. Was it a bit of past history, Rynagh's had beaten you in county finals and Coolderry beat ye as well?

“I wasn't involved in 2018 but I know the Coolderry defeat was a sore one. But they're all sore ones. And they probably felt they left a couple behind against Rynagh's. But I don't think that was ever spoke about coming up to those matches. I think the hunger is purely coming from the panel being so strong where years ago lads knew that if they were at 60% they're still going to be picked, and at 70%. I think they know now that if they fall away they're probably going to be left off. “

You know Ballinamere intimately. You managed them at Intermediate and Senior B?

“ I was in work and Pat Cleary gave me a call and I was heavily involved in development squads. And next thing he asked me would I be interested in the Ballinamere job and I thought he was messing. We went down and I was down with Stephen Ravenhill who is on the line for Ballinamere again and I was with Alan Scully and Sean Guinan was giving us a hand and the first year we won the Junior A and the Intermediate and went up and won Senior B and I went after that. I was probably anxious to get back and do a bit with K-K. I had two great years down there. Hurling is everything down there, always has been through history, brilliant people there. Stephen, Alan and Sean, working with underage and girls, and then Carina. I dealt with Donal O'Brien who was chairman at the time and Vincent Molloy and Donal Molloy, unbelievable people who just love Ballinamere so much. When you talk about Donal Molloy and Donal O'Brien and Alan Scully and all these lads, if Ballinamere are playing anyone apart from K-K in the final I'd be rooting for them. I was treated brilliantly. The work they're doing there is incredible, girls and boys. The place is always full.”

I'm not sure how enthusiastic they will be in the south of Offaly but this final is a great pairing for hurling in the county I think?

“ I don't know how it's going to go down in south Offaly. Sometimes I don't know if Birr and Banagher class us as south Offaly or north Offaly, we're happy to just sit in the middle and say nothing. I don't buy into that. I was lucky enough that when I was Under 12 in 1987 after we amalgamated in 1986, I never bought into the Kilcormac Killoughey thing. When I started it was always Kilcormac-Killoughey, I never played for Kilcormac. I feel the same in Offaly. I wouldn't care if a hurler was from Edenderry or Coolderry. Everyone should want to hurl and play football. I wouldn't think like that and I hope in general Offaly people wouldn't think like that. If every club in north Offaly, south Offaly, middle Offaly, whatever Offaly you want to call it, was doing the work Ballinamere are doing, Offaly would be in a better place.”

Ballinamere have been coming for a few years. This isn't a surprise?

“I remember when Ciaran Burke and Brian Duignan, Sean Duignan and Ross were Under 16 and they were playing Rynagh's up in Kilcormac in the semi-final and I went up to look at it and Pat Cleary was there and I think Michael Duignan was involved and Aaron Kenny was playing for Rynagh's and I asked Pat Cleary who is the full back for Ballinamere and he said that's Ciaran Burke and from that day I just kept my eye on him. And I was lucky when I was with Offaly Under 16s when we won the Arrabawn in Tipperary, I had Kevin McDermott, Brian Duignan, John Murphy, numerous lads, Ross, Brian, Kevin, the whole lot and then when I was with the Offaly Under 20s they all came again so I'm after having a lot of contact with a lot of the Ballinamere players from managing Ballinamere for two years and I've had a lot of them with Offaly Under 16 and 20. But I remember that Under 16 team came through and won their first minor against K-K in O'Connor Park. That was a fine Under 16 team and in fairness a lot of them have come through. So it has been coming from that team that won Under 16 and minor two years later. The full back Ciaran Burke always stood out in my mind and he's full back for Ballinamere next Sunday. I'd be close enough to Burkie, Brian and Ross and when Offaly would be playing I'd drop them a message and they'd text me back so there's huge respect there.”

It seems strange that K-K are going to be such hot favourites considering Ballinamere probably had more on the Offaly senior hurling team this year than K-K?

“I was laughing the other day. Diggy is over working for Martin Og Buggy in Buggy Refrigeration and Martin Og was slagging him, ah shur it's going to be a walk in the park for K-K and of course Diggy turned around and said to him, we don't have seven or eight on the Offaly senior team. So that banter and craic is going on. They've huge representation on Offaly and all well deserved. And on top of that they've Chris McDonald who hurled for Offaly and Jack Fogarty who when he was 18, 19, 20 years of age was the next big thing. They've Aaron Maher, Joe Maher, John Murphy, who only two or three years ago was on the Offaly senior team. So apart from the lads who are on it they probably have 13 or 14 lads who over the last few years have been part of the Offaly senior panel so they've a huge team. We've only two or three on the senior and are massively represented at Under 20 but they probably have a better age profile than K-K so we've our work cut out. But like every game this year we're going to work our socks off and see where it takes us?

I can't remember Ballinamere and K-K playing hurling against each other at senior?

“There's a young girl from Ballinamere, Sarah Doyle, and she plays camogie with Kilcormac-Killoughey camogie club and they were here with Lily, my daughter, who's on that and she said why do Kilcormac-Killoughey never play Ballinamere, but for some reason or other we just, I know with the draw this year we could have got them, it kept us apart. In Adam's (Screeney) interview on Clubber he said he's never played Ballinamere at senior level apart from league matches. We've been kept apart up to this but there will probably be a big coming together on Sunday?

There's no baggage between the clubs that you might have had with Rynagh's or Coolderry?

“Look, there's nothing to look back on. It's just two great teams going to meet on Sunday and there's no baggage and hopefully there'll be no baggage after it. I'm a firm believer in whatever goes on Sunday between the white lines and when the final whistle goes, we'll all be friends after it.”

What do you say to people who are making K-K such hot favourites?

“ I wouldn't pass any remarks on it. We don't make ourselves favourites. We don't believe we're favourites. We just believe it's a 50-50 game. I honestly believe who ever works harder on the day is going to win.”

It's your third year as manager and you've won one and lost one final. There's nothing guaranteed?

“There is nothing guaranteed, and going on about favourites, we listened to all this before when we played Shinrone and we didn't take Shinrone for granted. We were out hurled on the day, and out worked on the day and that's exactly the way it's going to work out again. I've had the feeling of a losing dressing room in a county final. It's an absolute terrible place to be and I've had the experience of winning a county final and it's a fantastic place to be and the lads have had it the last two years so I know which feeling they'll be looking for on Sunday.”

You've a golden generation but there's no guarantee of what's coming down the road in two or three years?

“We're lucky that they're all around. Nearly everyone from those underage teams are still with us at the minute. 90% are at college or working, they're all still local. When lads finish their college courses they might go away for a year or get tired of it, you don't know, hopefully they'll never head to Australia. We're probably quite lucky that generally we hold on to our best talent. Even if they go for a year they'll be back.”

Fellows can go off the boil, they can travel. You told me you gave up playing yourself so young, you got burnt out. How conscious would you be of those lads playing county and club and playing nearly 12 months each year?

“Even the younger lads that played on the team Tipperary pipped in the minor final, they've probably been hurling non-stop since that. Diggy was injured for three months during the summer and it's probably standing to him now. We're probably minding Adam and Colin (Spain) and them lads, and managing their load a bit more because they are two or three years on the go. It is something we're conscious of. There has been nights during the year when we'd give lads a night off, it could be Charlie (Mitchell) or Colin. We'd be very conscious of resting lads, like if they have niggles or whatever. But it is a danger when they're hurling so much. As soon as this is over Johnny Kelly is going to come calling and Leo (O'Connor) is going to come calling and it's important that they try and manage them over the next few months as well. There's a balancing act but they have to get the work done but too much is too little sometimes.”

Irrespective of the county final it's looking good for Kilcormac-Killoughey, with other underage teams coming through.

“Yeah and the minor club championship is going back to Under 18 next year and that is probably a help to us and not a help to other clubs. We have the numbers, lads like Odhran Fletcher, Macdarragh Mitchell, Oisin Carroll, so them lads are going to get to play underage hurling for the next two years after this so they won't be hitting us until they're 19. So at that stage Diggy and Adam and all them will be 22 or 23. So it's a help to us but we've excellent hurlers on the minor team and we're in an Under 15 final but will probably be up against it with Birr. But we've good hurlers at every age group. The Under 13s got to a semi-final and lost to a very good Birr team but there's good hurlers all the way through. Walk in here and the field is absolutely full with young lads playing hurling. There's great work going on.”

And four adult teams. That's 100 hurlers or near enough. How have you got such numbers? I know Kilcormac-Killoughey is a bigger parish than people realise?

“It's a big parish but probably 90% of our players are all coming from the countryside. It's not that we're pulling 20, 30 or 40 lads out of the town. I'd be a townie who moved out, a lot of us are townies who moved out into the countryside. We just seem to have big numbers, even in the camogie club there's... As I do say, God love Willie Gorman, whenever a child is born... I remember when my first lad was born, Dylan, Willie and I shook hands and he said is it a man or a child? So Willie was only interested in boys but when you see all the girls in the camogie club there's just massive numbers everywhere.

“It probably is a big parish but if you drive through it it's not densely populated. In fairness to all the parents of the parish and it's the same in Ballinamere, when you go down there the numbers are huge, boys and girls. All the parents in both clubs are very GAA orientated and their kids get involved and all the parents in our club when they start up at six or seven years of age they bring them in and that's where it starts. I always go back and look, at say Diggy and Adam, James Mahon and the Kavanaghs – these lads don't grow on trees. We took them in down in the community centre when they were six and we spent half the session wiping their noses and wiping their tears and giving them selection boxes at Christmas time to encourage them to keep coming back. The work that has gone in to getting them lads through is incredible.”

We talked about south and north Offaly briefly but there is a lot of clubs in south Offaly, Drumcullen, Lusmagh, Kinnitty, further south, even Coolderry, they're going into amalgamations at underage level. K-K certainly aren't south Offaly in that regard. Numbers is not an issue?

“Numbers is not an issue and we're lucky that it's like that and you can only admire the likes of Drumcullen and Clareen, real hurling people, but unfortunately they just don't have the numbers. Championships going to Under 18 probably suits us because it holds young lads back a year. But it's a killer for them because they need them straight away. They probably are better off. Even Diggy and Adam all came in when they were 18 and if we got another year out of them their underage would have stood to them, it would have given them another year without getting the heavy knocks. It's unfortunate, numbers seem to be low and in fairness they're all keeping it going and our minors are playing Drumcullen and Clareen, they've a fine minor team but on their own they can't field because they haven't the numbers”

Has anyone done a study of the number of kids aged two, three, four or five are the numbers there to keep that going in K-K?

“Yeah. Even at Halloween there's a camp going on and I think the numbers are good. They bring them in a four or five and six. All the marriages seem to be happy at the minute!”